i need some help on the 2013 2.4 ecotec codes

[corvairbob]

last fall i did my girls 2013 2.4 ecotec with the lea engine. it needed a new timing chain and while i was there i just did a rebuild. with rings, rod bearings water pump both crank seals and took the head apart and cleaned the valves and lapped them in new stem seals and all gaskets. plus yes all new timing chain components. phasers chain guides water pump etc even new vvt solenoids.
ok it ran ok but did still use a bit of oil but did not toss any codes. fast forward to last week. she let the oil run low and she got an engine stumble and then she got p0011 and p0016 and 17. she cleared the codes and the p0016 and 17 came back. she brought it over to me and i did the same thing, i cleared the 16 &17 codes and after i shut the engine off and restarted it they were back.

so i'm hard-pressed to think i did not get the chain aligned or i'm sure i would have seen those codes before this. now a bit of history ont the old parts. when i took it apart the guides were gone the plastic was in the oil pan and i took the old phasers apart and they both had broken fingers but for one each unit. but the locking pins were still intact. the vvt solenoids wer both full of junk metal and plastic.

so when i had the head off i cleaned the cams i found out they were both exhaust cams and phasers after installing the chains just to find out it did not rotate. this engine has exhaust cams and phasers on it. but i blew out the cam oil holes and put it all back together. so now i get the 16 & 17 codes. i do not think it would be both cam sensors but it might be the cran sensor, however, i would think that i would see a code it the sensor was starting to fail. some say the reluctors on the cams can move but i do not think they would both just move.

so before i take the engine back apart to see if the timing is still good and take the phasers apart to make sure they are good, I'm hoping someone here may have had this issue and can guide me thru the repair.

when i did the chain i set the crank so the key was at 12 o clock and the exhaust was at 10 o clock and the intake was at 2 o clock. and when i put the correct parts back in i had the crank at 12 o clock and then i put the intake on with the cam alignment port at 10 o clock and the phaser index at 2 o clock. then put the bolt in hand tight. then i took the exhaust phaser and wet the chain on it in the correct pointer to the mark on the chain and rotated the exhaust cam to align the cam port to the phaser pin and put the bolt in and then turned the exhaust cam enough to get the phaser to align and then hand tightened the bolt. but in doing this the crank alignment move a bit to the 5 o clock position. i did this 5 tiems and got the same results.

then i torqued it down and turned the crank a bit clockwise to give the exhaust side some slack to set the tensioner, but giving it a tap on the tensioner guide. i used the cloyes website for this procedure.

now it has been all winter and like i said she ran it low on oil and the engine made a quick stumble and now the codes. so i wonder if one or both phasers ran out of oil pressure and maybe broke the fingers and now the phasers are out of time? i just do not believe the chain wore out or the tensioner failed, it could be the crank sensor but no codes.

so does anyone have any ideas that i have not thought of? i would insert photos of the timing marks but i do not see the insert images without using a link so maybe i do not have privileges yet.

thanks for any help on this one bp.

 

[zora]

Try Google "Ecotec P0016 code" a number of videos pop up that have some suggestions

 

[corvairbob]

thanks but none of them help i have watched hundreds of them and most are not even close and none have the fix. being it has all new parts 6 months ago i'm hard press the think they fialed. but a phaser may have failed when she let the oil run low and it lost some pressure. it needs the pressure to keep the phasers aligned. the vvt solenoids did not have any junk on them but they were old so i put new units in and the codes still returned. they returned 3 times in the garage. so i ordered a new crank position sensor and see if that is the issue. long ago i did have a Concorde the crank position sensor was failing but that did not stop the engine completely but it did make the engine stall then the engine would continue. but that did send a code. this issue is not setting any sensor codes.

if that sensor fails to fix the issue i will take the covers off and recheck to make sure the timing is good and also i may take ff the phasers and take them apart to make sure they did not break internally. the old phasers were broken internally. here is the timing i set it to last fall and the old phasers that we're broken so you can see what i have and had sorry this forum will not let me insert photos yet. when they let me post photos i will and you can see what i'm talking about.

thanks

 

[zora]

How low was the oil level?

 

[corvairbob]

i do not know all i can say is she noticed the codes pop up and scanned it and sent me a note telling me she got p0011 and 16 and 17 and i looked them up and for p0011 i go this
The OBD-II scanner error code P0011 problem can be caused by a few different mechanical issues. These are the most likely causes:

• The camshaft timing is off
• The valve control solenoid is stuck open
• The valve control solenoid system has faulty or damaged wiring
• The oil is too viscous and flow to and from the camshaft’s phasers is restrictive

More rarely, the code can also be set by a faulty PCM or ECM. However, this would not typically have the same mechanical symptoms as a genuine fault.

i do not think the time was off because she has driven it now all winter. the vvt solenoid i do not think was stuck open unless it was told to open and there was not enough pressure to retard or advance the intake cam due to low oil pressure from the oil being low.

p0016 and p0017 see to refer to both cams being out of sync with the crank and here is the possible reason for those codes

What are the Possible Causes of the P0016 Code?​

When the PCM issues a code P0016, the car may be experiencing one of these issues:

• Stretched or damaged timing chain or timing belt
• Damaged camshaft or crankshaft reluctor wheel
• Bad crankshaft sensor
• Bad camshaft sensor
• Damaged wiring or loose connections
• Damaged timing chain/belt tensioners or guides
• Defective variable valve timing (VVT) actuator (aka phaser)
• Faulty variable valve timing (VVT) solenoid (aka oil control valve)
• A problem with the PCM, such as software in need of an update
• Low oil level

because i got both 16 and 17 code i find it hard to believe it has both bad vvt solenoids or bad cam sensors. and the chain is now last fall so if she ran it low one time i do not think the guides are worn down that fast or the chain stretched but it may have damaged the phasers or the crank sensor may be failing i have one in the mail now or at the outset, it might have jumped a tooth, also i do not believe the crank relutor got damaged or moved. it may be possible but this did not happen until it ran low on oil.
so my first repair will be the crank sensor an if the code does not go off i will take the covers off and check for damaged guides or jumped time or bad phasers. i do not think it jumped time as when i took it apart last fall the guides did not have a lick of plastic on any of them and the steel was about worn down and the tensioner was beaten up real bad but is was still in time. i will find out real soon. also, keep in mind i rebuilt the engine last fall so it has all new parts in it, so we will see real soon. if anyone does have other ideas please send them and if i have not yet tried them i will give them a try. thanks

just as soon as i can post images i will show you what i set the timing to and the old phasers.

 

[zora]

So you can't be sure the engine was driven with a low enough oil level to cause damage to mechanical components triggering codes?

 

[corvairbob]

to be fair she said she was on her way to work. so if that is true then it was let's say half way to and the full way home with the low oil issue. but also keep in mind she had a really bad oil use issue last year and ran it many times low because it was using gallons of oil a week. and i'm betting more than once she drove it all the way to and from work with low oil. but also when i got the car in my shop i found the guides had all the plastic gone and actually in the oil pan and the guide steel was worn read well. plus the phasers were busted up good. one had 2 fingers and the other had 2 fingers bused off and i think they made the phasers stick. so if she ran it low on oil enough i'm leaning on busted-up phasers again and then sticking so the cams will not move when requested to move. and the ecu sees that and codes. but i get lots of car guys telling me it is the cam sensors or the crank sensor. i do not think both cam sensors would fail at the same time during that time frame. but it is possible that the crank sensor just happened to fail and now shows the code. p0016 & 17 . so i have a new crank sensor on the way and if that fails to clear the codes i will take the valve cover off and move the cams to see if the phaser may have failed or the chain looks loose. if the sprockets move and i see the top of the chain between the cams drop a bit then the guides have failed and the tensioner may have reached it's limit. but if the cams move and the sprockets stay tight then the phasers failed. if they did i'm going to see if i can do a delete.

if anyone here knows how to do that please send that along. thanks

 

[corvairbob]

ok update on this issue i put in a new crank sensor and the code came back in about 3 minutes. so it drives but not perfect so she said she will drive it until it takes a shit and leaves it where it stops. i told her i would not put my money into it again
so this is a done deal it is not the sensors so it has to be mechanical and she does not want to pursue it anymore. thanks

 

[corvairbob]

ok update on this issue i put in a new crank sensor and the code came back in about 3 minutes. so it drives but not perfect so she said she will drive it until it takes a shit and leaves it where it stops. i told her i would not put my money into it again
so this is a done deal it is not the sensors so it has to be mechanical and she does not want to pursue it anymore. thanks

 

[corvairbob]

ok i talked to my girl today and told her if she wants to trade this in for a new car it will have to run good to get the most money out of it. or if she wants to park it on the side of the road it has to run good. if she blows the engine she might get 500$ for scrap.

so she wants me to look into it so i found out on the wells site they were diagnosing p0010 and 14 and they hit on 16 and 17 10 and 14 are 6 deg out of time 16 and 17 are 10 deg out of time and the phasers are trying to bring it back into time and can't make it.

so tuesday i will tear it down and see what i find going on. i will put the crank at 12 and get the phasers as close to 10 and 2 as i can to see just how far out it is. it could have jumped 2 teeth and that is about what those codes mean 10 and 14 are 6 deg. anyway, i told her for 100$ or so in some parts she can get more money so it will be money well spent to get more for a trade, and who knows she may decided to keep it. i also found out the intake cam lobs that the sensor reads if when i get it timed to check them and see if the notch between the 2 larger lobes is in the sensor area then that has not moved and the cams are then aligned about as close as i can get them. the exhaust will be a bit behind the intake about the width of that notch.

so i will stop back tuesday or wednesday with what i found and if i can post photos by then put some up on what i found.

 

[G-113454]

ok i talked to my girl today and told her if she wants to trade this in for a new car it will have to run good to get the most money out of it. or if she wants to park it on the side of the road it has to run good. if she blows the engine she might get 500$ for scrap.

so she wants me to look into it so i found out on the wells site they were diagnosing p0010 and 14 and they hit on 16 and 17 10 and 14 are 6 deg out of time 16 and 17 are 10 deg out of time and the phasers are trying to bring it back into time and can't make it.

so tuesday i will tear it down and see what i find going on. i will put the crank at 12 and get the phasers as close to 10 and 2 as i can to see just how far out it is. it could have jumped 2 teeth and that is about what those codes mean 10 and 14 are 6 deg. anyway, i told her for 100$ or so in some parts she can get more money so it will be money well spent to get more for a trade, and who knows she may decided to keep it. i also found out the intake cam lobs that the sensor reads if when i get it timed to check them and see if the notch between the 2 larger lobes is in the sensor area then that has not moved and the cams are then aligned about as close as i can get them. the exhaust will be a bit behind the intake about the width of that notch.

so i will stop back tuesday or wednesday with what i found and if i can post photos by then put some up on what i found.

Corviarbob: Did you ever figure out the problem?