71 Nova, starter and wiring problems after new brakes?

JayDee240

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I just finished converting the front brakes from manual drums, to power discs. The only wiring that I touched was the battery terminals, and the brake fluid level warning wire. I just disconnected them while I was working on the car. I tried to hook them back up but the positive wire sparks BAD when I touch to the positive terminal (should not be any load, ignition is off). Yes I have the terminals and wires correct, no I didn't hook them up incorrectly at any point. I got out my ohm meter and the positive wires are directly shorted to ground. On the positive, I disconnected the large 6g wire and the small 14g wire that are on the terminal connecter. The 14g wire is what's shorted. I found it goes to the horn relay (unshorted), and is shorted after that. When I completely disconnect the 12g and 20g starter solenoid wires, I still have a short on the wiring, and on the starter terminals. I'm not worried about the wiring right now, I'm more interested in whether the starter needs replaced or not. There are 4 terminals total on the solenoid. 6g wire coming from battery, 20g from ignition coil, 12g from ignition, then there is a terminal that goes directly to the starter motor. The 12g, 20g, and direct to motor are all shorted to ground. Does the starter need replaced? or should these be grounded? I'm not very familiar with starters. Any help is appreciated. Also, I would like to replace the starter with a high torque with atleast 4:1 ratio, if it is bad. I was looking at these two > Delco PG260G .. 18493NPS If anyone has experience with the high torque starters, feel free to share some advice.






If anyone wants to know the story behind this car, here it is. My father bought the car when I was 12. When I was 14 he sent it away to have it completely restored. I was one month from turning 16, he got the car back. 3 days before my 16th birthday, he passed away and the car was legally mine to do with what I want. Let just say, a 71 Nova wasn't the best first car for me. Being a stupid teenager, I beat the living snot out of this freshly restored car. I drove it to school every single day. I remember driving in the snow, the car covered in road salt, I was barely able to keep it on the road. There were even a few times I didn't keep it on the road, I put plenty of dents, dings, and scrapes down to the bare metal on it. I wasn't proud of myself for driving the car like this, but my family was not wealthy by any means. My mother was working 3 jobs to raise my siblings and I. I worked every day after school and made just enough to buy school supplies and maintain the car, oh and gas... I can't even remember how many times I ran out of gas in this stupid car. Anyway, I couldn't afford to buy another car at the time. I drove the nova on 5 spark plugs for over a year, until I got it inspected and the garage told me it sounded like crap. The carb was blocked up to the point I couldn't start the car anymore, so someone actually put on a new carb free of charge because they liked the way the car looked... I blew the rear shocks, rear brake lines, went through 2 steering pumps, destroyed the front suspension. Blew a front brake line and broke both brake shoes up front. Blew a front tire, put on an old tire that I found, then blew that one. Then I finally I screwed up the rear end and couldn't drive it anymore. I stopped driving the car at age 19. and let it sit. In March of 2012 (age 21 now) I decided it was time that I paid some respect to the classic car and get it back on the road. Starting with repairing the brakes and suspension. I just spent the past 3 days re-doing the front end. Coil springs, ball joints, tie rod ends and adjuster, struts, sway bar links, and the entire braking system including master cylinder, power booster, disk brake kits, and all new lines. Brand spanking new Sumitomo tires on some shiny black and chrome rims. Future plans include rebuilding the rear and putting in a Detroit Locker. New, stock style, steering wheel and putting the stock headlights back in. Possibly LED tail lights and digital dash. Also I need to replace alot of engine parts, possibly put an entire new engine in. Right now it has a 350, and that's probably what will go back in it. The car was 40k original miles before it was restored. I put well over 10k on it in 3 years. Here's a small album of the car and the little bit of work that I've done to it so far >> http://imgur.com/a/eDdN1
 
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I think you need a copy of the factory manual with the wiring diagram. You could try www.yearone.com. With the starter, you can try removing it and have it bench tested at a local parts store, or try yourself. Nothing else happened during the brake conversion that would account for this, everything was fine immediately before you started this part of your project?
 
I found this wiring diagram. I cannot physically remove the starter right now due to a partially collapsed lung. I'm unable to break the bolts loose. I was hoping to just get some info on starters in general since I don't know anything about them. Should 3 of the 4 terminals be directly shorted to ground? The car did not have trouble starting before the brake job...
 
The diagram shows the positive cable going to the large terminal on the starter and the starter solenoid having 2 wires, one goes to the positive side of the ignition coil(if your points are closed it will go to ground) and the other should go to the ignition switch(switch on probably would go to ground also). The 4th wire is the connection from solenoid to starter? There is also the second wire from the positive battery terminal going to the horn relay and the charging system. I know you got a large spark when connecting the cable but did you leave it connected and try starting the car? Was the door open when you connected the cable? Other than the large spark, are you sure you have a problem?
 
If I Do tighten the the wire on, when I try to start it just pops. It sounds like the starter just turns a very slight amount, then a pop, and all dash lights go out. Ignition back off, then on, lights come back on, try to start again and another pop and lights are out. I don't have door switches. The positive line is directly shorted to ground, even when alternator, horn relay, and starter are in-wired. I'd say that's a huge problem. I'm assuming the ignition is where the wire short is, I'm more worried about the starter.
 
Since the only electrical thing you touched other than the battery cables was the brake fluid warning switch, have you tried disconnecting it?
 
Yeah, brake fluid sensor disconnected makes no difference. I found that the ignition is shorting the harness. Now I just have to find out how to get to it to replace it. Thanks for the help.
 
if you mean the ignition switch this might help, it's for a Pontiac but should be similar
Step 2) Remove the steering wheel.
Step 3) Remove lock plate and raise turn signal switch far enough to access
the cylinder spring latch slot (be sure to remove the turn signal lever
and flasher knob before attempting to raise switch).
Step 4) Remove the cylinder in the “RUN” position by inserting a small
screwdriver into the slot next to the switch mounting screw boss and depress
the spring latch at the bottom of slot (it may be necessary to knock
out a thin layer of pot-metal to expose the slot). This should release the
lock so you can simply pull in out of the housing.
 
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